Oh, how I long for the past – when a summit meeting pitted true mortal enemies – each intent on the destruction of the other – where diplomatic niceties were but a thin veil to cover the disdain and hatred bubbling just beneath the surface – where the future of freedom and democracy seemed to hang in the balance. It is all so fresh in my memory, it seems like it was only yesterday…..
Wait…. It was only yesterday….. Blair House has become the new Reykjavik. Health Care Reform is the new Nuclear Arms Reduction. The Americans and the Soviets have been replaced by the Democrats and the Republicans, and Fox News is the new Pravda.
Do you remember Reykjavik? It was almost 25 years ago – half a lifetime for me – yet I still retain vivid memories. I remember how the talks broke down at the last minute…. how grim-faced Reagan and Gorbachev emerged without as much as a smile or a handshake for each other. In fact, they wouldn’t even make eye contact. I remember the sinking feeling that something really bad had occurred. I remember how George Shultz proclaimed “I have never been so proud of my President….”
It is frightening, is it not, that relations between the Democrats and Republicans these days seem just as strained and bitter as those between the Americans and Soviets 25 years ago? Oh – there were some smiles and handshakes after the summit yesterday – but this is starting to feel like the new cold war. The days of bipartisanship and cooperation are gone. There is no mutual respect. Each side relishes the destruction of the other.
There is one major difference between Reykjavik and Blair House: Reykjavik itself was a failure, but it was the beginning of something better. The INF treaty – a true bilateral treaty – was signed just over a year later.
I have no such confidence that Blair House will presage a bipartisan agreement on health care. I have no expectation that we will see a reduction of hostilities between Republicans and Democrats. I suspect we were never meant to see such changes. Nobody expected progress anyway – before it even happened the press called it political theater and the Republicans called it a trap. President Obama closed with the assessment that Republicans and Democrats would perhaps never be able to reach agreement. I suspect he is right. If Health Care Reform is to occur it will because Democrats do it unilaterally.
Perhaps the Republicans were right to call it a trap – because they were certainly trapped into showing that they had no real ideas. Oh – they will claim that they have ideas – and Pravda-FOX will claim it on their behalf – but they conveniently forget to mention that 147 Republican amendments made it into the Senate Bill. They have had significant input into the legislation – but still can’t manage to vote for it. That, my friends, is the essence of political theater.
What was Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell able to offer at the end of proceedings? Just the tired mantra of “let’s start over.” Don’t kid yourself. “Let’s start over” means “lets not get it done at all.” The insurance industry has the GOP in its pocket, and the insurance industry does not want to see this done – ever. The insurance industry wants to continue with their near-monopolistic domination of the markets. The insurance industry wants to continue their immoral practices – reducing the quality of care and stealing from their policy holders – all in the name of profit. The insurance industry will continue to pour millions into a disinformation campaign aimed to frighten the public away from reforms that would in fact benefit the public greatly. Pravda-FOX will continue in its role as a propaganda organ for the right-wing.
The Republicans want to scream about the cost. I will tell you something about cost. An estimated 45,000 people die each year because they are uninsured (here is the link for those who will inevitably doubt the estimate). Countless more suffer needlessly. That is a cost we cannot continue to endure.
Can I echo the worlds of George Shultz at the conclusion of Reykjavik? Can I say “I have never been so proud of my President….”? No – not yet. I am indeed pleased that my President is refusing to yield further on what is already a very moderate reform bill. I will reserve true pride for my President – and for my party – for the day that a comprehensive reform bill is signed into law.
Tags: conservative, democrat, Health Care Reform, insurance, left-wing, liberal, Obama, political, republican, Reykjavik, right-wing, wordpress-political-blogs
February 26, 2010 at 6:06 pm |
I believe yesterday the Republicans not only ate the Dimocrats for lunch, in fact I’m sure of it being all of you libs have had no new talking points today, but put the charges of “no ideas” and nihilism to bed. Obama came across as the smarmy punk and bully, not terribly bright, with a the large dose of typical narcissism and real love for hearing his own voice. I’ve actually gotten to where when I see Obama, he might as well grow horns and a tail, and hold a pitchfork. Obama got one thing right – that is what elections are for and I hope that the Dimocrats will push for reconciliation. I will patiently wait for the left-wing of the Dimocratic party to be destroyed eight months from now in one night. I can wait.
Hippie, you asked me why your poor, poor party would be met with such hostility. I finally found the link today that documented just how our previous President was treated. As the link demonstrates, millions of us got the message. This is war now. We will not rest until the progressive party and its dangers are utterly destroyed. It might sadden me if you get caught in the crossfire, but you took sides and help provide the propaganda including this, and now you’ll have to live with its consequences if you lose. You hold a Grand Canyon wide double standard, have a blind left eye, and I simply don’t trust your motivations or hidden intent. Your idea of bipartisanship is to simply follow the Obama line – that isn’t going to fly anymore.
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621
February 27, 2010 at 8:31 am |
Tex said….. This is war now.
You know, when I wrote this piece – comparing current relations between Republicans and Democrats to cold war era relations between Russia and the US – I thought people might think it was exaggerated hyperbole. Thank you for proving my point that in fact it is not. There is a seething hatred between the sides now. It is dangerous and ir is unprecedented.
I know exactly what you are going to say – that this is somehow payback for what the left did to Bush. If that is the case then it is payback tenfold. You claim that we on the left treated Bush this way – and maybe a few did – but the level of hatred and disdain is nothing like you are dumping on Obama – not even close.
I really can’t figure it out because Obama hasn’t even been in office long enough and hasn’t done enough – positive or negative – to generate so much hatred. In the past I have blamed it partly on racism – and I do thnk that os part of it – but there must be more. Pravda-FOX and Limbaugh and Beck are constantly out there stirring up the hatred too – and I suspect that has a lot to do with it as well.
You are right – this is war – and you guys have declared it. Those of us on the other side can’t quite figure it out. We can disagree on policy – but that does not account for the hatred.
– hp
February 27, 2010 at 10:44 am |
If you clicked that link I provided, and still believe that what we do to that chump you call President and I call a walking disaster, is even remotely what was carried forth by the Left and delivered to George Bush, and isn’t defined as hate, then you are even more deluded that I thought. Your own prejudices keep you from even seeking truth because you don’t want the truth, so you can the sanctimony about the onesidedness. You can’t even be consistent in your own posts without showing your own bias.
You have answered your own question. The hate is not on account of Obama, though he exemplifies why I personally don’t like the Left. The hate is on account of people like you, and Rutherford, and Moe, and Paul and the countless other hacks who carry the Left’s water every day. Don’t you realize you are a big part of the equation, or has it never dawned on you that contrary to your nice guy demeanor, you’re still perceived by the opponent as a propagandist with an agenda based on lies? And under it all, you think you are superior and far more intelligent than your opponents.
I learned an interesting fact while volunteering in the emergency room for three years. There wasn’t a leftist volunteer in the bunch, as we would talk in the break room after a time. Not a one. Thirty, forty people and not a one that would consider themselves a bleeding heart from the Left. And it occurred to me that something I longed suspected – most on the Left like to talk the game, but it hardly ever seems to carry through with actions. It was the same way with hospice. So if you’re so damn concerned about people not having insurance or not receiving health care Professor, why don’t you help pick up the net and hold it like so many of us have done?
I just proved with pictures, not words, the absolute and most vicious hatred that was shown for eight years toward Bush and his administration – including open death threats, hanging nooses on the bumper stickers, etc… and still you deny its existence, and even try to excuse it. Those pictures are from coast to coast. And you always play somebody’s bad behavior to excuse your own. If the attitudes bother you, you got nobody to blame but yourselves. Quit the whining, gird up the loins, grab the weapon, and quit with the faux outrage. One dissenting station that doesn’t follow your agenda, you seethe. A few AM radio talk shows and you seethe. Somebody creates a weblog that doesn’t prostrate in worship for Obama, you seethe.
Yeah, you bet it is a war. A war of ideas, a war of the soul, a war of the culture, a war for our children. If the attitudes really bother you, and I don’t think they do other than to make a piece for conversation, the Left has got nobody to blame but themselves.
February 26, 2010 at 6:32 pm |
HippieP–
To add to your points:
A recent study showed that increasing co-pays actually increased insurance costs, since people put off having medical care until their conditions required (much more expensive) hospitalization.
This is the cost of not providing affordable AND comprehensive insurance coverage for all citizens.
And note that the insurance industry is bipartisan: they are generous to Democrats as well as to Republicans.
February 26, 2010 at 7:59 pm |
Paul said….. And note that the insurance industry is bipartisan: they are generous to Democrats as well as to Republicans.
….and lets not forget Independents like Joe “I have no ties to the insurance industry….” Lieberman
Of course, after the Citizens United ruling it is going to get even worse. It really has to be done now or it will never get done – ever.
– hp
February 26, 2010 at 10:52 pm |
Great post HP. The spin from Tex and the other conservatives on my blog is mind blowing. But you know what? One thing I concluded is that NONE of them actually watched the summit. LOL
I DID. Yes, I watched all 7 hours of it minus about 10 minutes when dumbass MSNBC broke in with commentary and I switched to CSPAN. So I saw every obstructionist move, every gripe, every refusal to acknowledge anything good in the bill, every robotically delivered “scrap it and start over / step by step approach / American people don’t want this bill”.
Obama was sensational. He treated the children like children and the adults like adults and yes, he had a smidgen of attitude. And why shouldn’t he? Congress has been dragging their ass on this for a year. Enough is enough.
One more thing HP. I think a key part of your article, the key part, is the hatred between the parties. I was trying to convince myself that this was a matter of mere ideological difference but I think it goes deeper than that. When a country is in crisis, the citizens need someone to blame. There has to be an enemy. So the libs have identified the cons as the enemy and vice versa.
Things will be ugly for some time to come.
February 27, 2010 at 12:00 am |
Bingo. I can actually see insurrection coming if Bomba rams his incredibly rotten, socialized medicine program and I ain’t kidding. People are going to be looking for blood. I hope they do ram it trough so we can tie it up in court for years. The possibility of the remote chance of a majority of the citizens demanding secession from blue states like your own actually gives me a tingle up my leg. Here in my state, we would enjoy getting rid of the 1/3 of the deadwood who voted for Obama and sending them your way. They’ll fit right in with the rest of the dopers, loafers, slackers, and deviants, and food stamp queens.
Rutherford, I think you, Hippie, and Wally are the only ones that think your little conference went well. You keep telling yourself that.
For once, I was actually kind of proud of the party. Ryan made Bongo look an exec that was told in the boardroom his wife just left him, emptied the house, and left the fluffy cat. I think I saw smoke coming from the baggy pants.
February 27, 2010 at 8:44 am |
Tex said: Bingo. I can actually see insurrection coming if Bomba rams his incredibly rotten, socialized medicine program and I ain’t kidding. People are going to be looking for blood.
Tex – the part that scares me the most is that you actually seem to be looking forward to this – that you seem to relish the chance that their might be bloodshed. I would remind you that armed insurrection against your President – and like it or not he is your President – is treason. If you are really the patriot you claim to be you would recognize that and you would back off your rhetoric.
The possibility of the remote chance of a majority of the citizens demanding secession from blue states like your own actually gives me a tingle up my leg.
You know – that doesn’t sound so bad to me sometimes. Lets pack all of the bigoted a$$holes into a couple of southern states and be done with it.
Rutherford, I think you, Hippie, and Wally are the only ones that think your little conference went well. You keep telling yourself that.
On the contrary, I think Pravda-FOX is the only network spinning it at all positively for the GOP. The “summit” certainly did not create any bipartisanship – but it again exposed your party for what it is. Quit lying about it Tex – “slow down and start over” means “lets not do it at all” AND YOU KNOW IT.
– hp
February 27, 2010 at 8:35 am |
Rutherford said…. I think a key part of your article, the key part, is the hatred between the parties.
That indeed is the key. As I said to Tex – I was worried I was exaggerating – but his posts actually go to prove my point.
– hp
February 27, 2010 at 9:28 am |
Rutherford–
Actually, things have been ugly for a long time now.
Think of Nixon’s campaigns (starting with California).
Think of all the hatred directed against FDR (including ethnic slurs, questions about his origins and accusations about ‘socialism’).
Nothing new from the Right wing.
February 27, 2010 at 10:20 am |
You’re right Paul. I tend to forget the good old days were really not all that good.
February 27, 2010 at 10:32 am |
HP, I said this already but I think it bears repeating. Racism is the most obvious factor in the Obama-hate but a key piece of this is sociological. It is what happens to a nation in crisis.
Now I know I’m oversimplifying but Nazi Germany didn’t arise because all or even most Germans were vial anti-Semites. The German’s got screwed after WWI and a demoralized nation was ripe for a nutjob like Hitler to tell them whom to blame and what to do about it.
I see that going on somewhat here today. We are in the worst financial position since the Great Depression. We have 10% unemployment that does not even scratch the surface of the true out-of-work population. We have a country that has outsourced all our skilled labor so we don’t produce anything anymore. I don’t see how we can become any more demoralized than we are now. So what do we do? We have to blame someone. We have to hate some enemy.
And this I will say and it will make Tex’s leg “tingle”. The one thing Obama has failed at is uniting the country. Maybe no one could have done it. When FDR united our country in the 30′s the media was a different animal. Rather than Obama bringing everyone together he is the focus of our polarity. We love him or we hate him. When he speaks common sense, he’s accused of lecturing. When he stands back, he’s accused of not getting enough involved.
Racism is like a cold sore. It stays dormant until other factors trigger it. Racism is just one of the many symptoms that has been exacerbated in a very sick nation.
February 27, 2010 at 11:02 am |
Racism is like a cold sore. It stays dormant until other factors trigger it. Racism is just one of the many symptoms that has been exacerbated in a very sick nation.
You ought to know. If you were physically capable, I can clearly see you as a militant racist. You parrot Malik Shabazz wonderfully, so welcome to the game.
What is beautiful about this whole exchange is in three posts, I’ve been able to expose the phony nature of the “concerns” by simply responding to your charges with further charges. Do you notice I have now raised the dialogue to accusations of “racist, redneck and accusation of treason?” Always with the typical discount of “a few Southern states.” Man, you guys really do live in a bubble.
That was too easy…
February 27, 2010 at 11:29 am |
I do have to share a giggle. It won’t mean anything to anyone else, but I know he finds it funny too.
Somehow over the last eighteen months, Rutherford and I, diametrically opposed concerning everything from women to religion, have become joined at the hip as we blast each other across three blogs almost simultaneously. Where he goes, I follow. Where I lead, he brings up the caboose. The biggest coincidence besides we are the same age, he being black and me being white, is somehow our own lives have kind of paralleled each other.
That God none of you rubes from the Left know anything about does indeed have a wonderful sense of humor.
February 27, 2010 at 12:26 pm |
More honesty from Honest Obe Admin on display. Scandals conveniently swept under the rug, while libs blather on about decency, honesty, and humanity. And the media? Nowhere to be found…nothing to see here folks.
http://www.redstate.com/mark_i/2010/02/23/favorgate/
February 27, 2010 at 7:24 pm |
Perhaps the Republicans were right to call it a trap – because they were certainly trapped into showing that they had no real ideas.
I was glad to see that they came prepared to talk about numbers…and Barack Hussein Obama’s complete unwillingness to talk about them. I would have been thrilled to see each and everyone of them give the correct answer:
“I have no plan to order the lives of the 40 million uninsured. I have no plans for how you should run your life, what insurance you should have, or where you should spend you money; and frankly I find it a little creepy that you have a plan for ordering my private life. And let’s face it, you don’t plan to insure 40 million Americans, you plan to force the other 250 million Americans to do it.”
I would remind you that armed insurrection against your President – and like it or not he is your President – is treason.
No. It isn’t. But it is telling of the leftist mindset. Obedience to a man and not the law. Treason is a unique crime in the fact that it is actually defined in the Constitution. I realize that this may come as a shock to you, since the things you usually say provide real doubt that you’ve ever actually read it, so I’ll make it easy for you:
We are not subjects of Barack Hussein Obama. We are citizens of the United States of America, a federation of 50 individual sovereign states, a concept made very clear in the Bill of Rights and often forgotten in an era of unfunded federal mandates. Every federal soldier, judge, and elected office-holder, including the President, swears an oath to the Constitution, and not the President. The same is expected of every citizen who lives under the protection it provides. You, like so many on the Left confuse your dedication to a leader with a duty to the law.
And your hyperventilating about the current level of partisanship? Knock it off. You’re embarassing yourself. You might look at the election between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, or between Andy Jackson and John Quincy Adams. Or the general rancor and yes, violence between members of Congress in the decade before the Civil War.
You teach at a university. Maybe you can get a staff rate on tuition and take an American history course or two…if they haven’t completely whitewashed all the parts out of it that academics don’t like to talk about.
February 27, 2010 at 8:34 pm |
if they haven’t completely whitewashed all the parts out of it that academics don’t like to talk about.
You mean like the part about our stealing this country from the Native Americans? I’m not sure I was ever taught that in formal education.
I also think you took HP a bit too literally. I’m sure he meant armed insurrection against the government, not the President per se. That would be treason. By the way, I hope with that “50 sovereign states” jazz that you’re not heading down that dumbass Rick Perry secession line of reasoning. You really want a civil war over whether the richest country on the planet makes sure its citizens can get health care?
March 1, 2010 at 8:51 am |
BiW…
I just gotta wonder – are you as big a jerk in real life as you come across here? You seem unable to debate here without the dripping sarcasm and and the ad hominem and without constantly waving your law degree. Certainly the emotions get flowing here – and the anger does not bother me – but the sarcasm and ad hominem are really unbecoming.
Rutherford is correct – indeed I was talking about armed insurrection against the government. I mis-spoke. But to hear you I guess plotting armed insurrection against a duly elected President is OK in your book?
You think I am hyperventilating about partisanship? I lived through the Watergate era – in a strongly Republican household – and saw my mother throw stuff at the TV in anger – but I never never never never saw the level of hatred I am seeing now.
Perhaps if we go back farther in history the partisanship was greater – but it is certainly unprecedented in my lifetime.
– hp
March 1, 2010 at 11:55 am |
I just gotta wonder – are you as big a jerk in real life as you come across here? You seem unable to debate here without the dripping sarcasm and and the ad hominem and without constantly waving your law degree.
I didn’t waive my law degree. I quoted the Constitution, which is something that any citizen who has read it more than once should be able to do. And the sarcasm makes a fine counterpoint to the condescension and misplaced belief that your goals are important enough to mandate my participation in this misadventure.
Rutherford is correct – indeed I was talking about armed insurrection against the government. I mis-spoke. But to hear you I guess plotting armed insurrection against a duly elected President is OK in your book?
There you go with that adademic omniscience again. It must be handy, or it least it might be if it worked right. Unlike a mushy-skulled twenty-something sitting in one of your lectures, it isn’t for you to tell me what I am thinking. Go back and read what I said very carefully. No where did I say what you just accused me of saying. What I did say is that it is not treason, and if you do not want what you say to be mistaken for what you mean, then I suggest you choose your words carefully.
You think I am hyperventilating about partisanship? I lived through the Watergate era – in a strongly Republican household – and saw my mother throw stuff at the TV in anger – but I never never never never saw the level of hatred I am seeing now.
Perhaps if we go back farther in history the partisanship was greater – but it is certainly unprecedented in my lifetime.
This is precisely why it is so easy for the Left to declare a CRISIS!!!11!!! that DEMANDS ACTION IMMEDIATELY!!!111!!!
The only perspective that means a damn is the one seen from ME, I, or My. I fear that if what you see now bothers you, you may yet live to see a day when you live in terror of what the next day brings. And whether you want to believe it or not, you will have played a part in making it possible.
The Part of Dependence™ has done everything it can to make its serfs and vassels believe that their predicament has absolutely nothing to do with them. Its always blamed on “the Rich”, “the greedy”, “the Wall Street fat cats”, “the corporations”, “the CEOs”, and of course, their legislative lapdogs, The Republicans.
It gave away entitlements, and called them rights. It saw to it spending on these entitlements would always rise, and vehemently denounced anyone who might utter a syllable of truth about what they were doing as a racist, determined to keep the least of us down, while doing all that they could to maintain this slavery, for their subjects’ own good, of course. And now we are at the point where the entitlements will become the rule rather than the exception, and you marvel at the partisan environment created and fed by the desires of your hearts.
It doesn’t take a genius to see what’s coming if nothing changes, and the only question that still matters, if only for a little while longer, is whether people like you, people smart enough to be able to see what they have wrought did so because they believed they would be riding the tiger when that day comes, or whether you let your good intentions so overide your intellect that you allowed yourself to be a willing pawn for those who did.
March 1, 2010 at 12:10 pm
The Part of Dependence™ has done everything it can to make its serfs and vassels
Look at the terminology here. Serfs, vassals, dependence. It is exactly as I stated in my recent Glenn Beck article. The Right is convinced that government exercising a protective responsibility over its people is tantamount to making slaves of them!
March 1, 2010 at 3:58 pm
Rutherford said: Look at the terminology here. Serfs, vassals, dependence. It is exactly as I stated in my recent Glenn Beck article. The Right is convinced that government exercising a protective responsibility over its people is tantamount to making slaves of them!
Very interesting point, R… I would suspect that our friends in European democracies – you know – the ones with successful universal health care plans – do not see themselves as serfs and vassals.
– hp
March 1, 2010 at 5:53 pm
Of course not. And seeing as how their predecessors did not see fit to leave the Old World and its classes and castes, to actually enjoy the exhileration of self-determination, the fact that they still essentially serve their govenments in exchange for what those governments see fit to let them have, it likely never would have occurred to them that they are getting a raw deal…unless of course they still manage to have more money than the normal servant and an urgent medical need. In that case, they can hop a plane, come here, pay out of their own pocket, and get the treatment they choose, when they choose it.
Really, if you want to let other people decide these things for you, you have plenty of other places you could live. Quit trying to steal my birthright, and the birthright of my sons. Making us more Europeon will not make the world a better place, nor will it improve this country.
March 2, 2010 at 7:24 am
…and yet several of them have a higher standard of living than we do.
– hp
March 2, 2010 at 11:09 am
Ah yes…the old “But the guilding on the shackles glitters so brightly in the sunlight” argument.
I repeat my assertion. You have plenty of choices available to you if you want to live as a servant. Your determination that your way is better for the rest of us will not become more convincing if you can manage to force it upon us, and I remain convinced that there are still enough people in this country who understand that “A government big enough to supply you with everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have.” and “The natural progress of things is for liberty to yeild, and government to gain ground.”
March 1, 2010 at 8:59 am |
BiW says the GOP should have said:
I have no plan to order the lives of the 40 million uninsured. I have no plans for how you should run your life, what insurance you should have, or where you should spend you money…
The GOP get so much mileage over the forced enrollment issue. I am sure you know, of course, that it is a misdirection made for political power.
Polls show that people do want to be covered for preexisting conditions. It makes sense that they would. If you have a preexisting condition and are lucky enough to have insurance now you are quite literally stuck in your current job and stuck in your current state. People actually seem to understand this.
What people don’t understand (though I am sure you do) is that we can’t cover for preexisting conditions without a coverage mandate. Otherwise someone will refuse to buy insurance when they are healthy and suddenly want to but it when they get sick. That breaks the system, does it not?
If find it amazing that the GOP leaves that part out when screaming about mandated coverage.
– hp
March 1, 2010 at 9:40 am |
HP, to distract us from the current polarization, conservatives like to remind us of how terrible it was in the good old days. Unfortunately the days they are referring to were when men settled their scores by having a duel in the streets (Burr vs Hamilton anyone?).
You are right that we have not since at least the 1960′s seen this much animosity in the public square.
But I will go on record to say the following. On my BlogTalkRadio show we have a “chat room” running during the show where people can type in comments and questions. Whenever a conservative calls into the show, the chat room lights up with the nastiest most intolerant comments … from liberals! I truly feel ashamed some weeks. A perfectly nice woman called in one week who happened to talk the GOP party line. She was as polite and graceful, even a bit timid, as she could be and the libs in the chat room tore her limb from limb.
There is no doubt the animosity comes from both sides.
February 27, 2010 at 8:52 pm |
You mean like the part about our stealing this country from the Native Americans? I’m not sure I was ever taught that in formal education.
Funny. It was taught in mine. Including a fairly detailed study of the shrinking presence of Indians in the cultural touchstones of the mid to late nineteenth century, broken treaties, and how Manifest Destiny really played a significant role. However, I would think that you would relish the study of how the old white guys who influenced the early development of this nation, some who owned slaves, and some who did not, set a standard for political partisanship that makes the process HP laments look like a donnybrook at a church picnic.
I also think you took HP a bit too literally. I’m sure he meant armed insurrection against the government, not the President per se.
I see. Lacking the ability to know what he was “really” thinking, I simply relied on his words as an indicator. How extraordinarily silly of me. Life would be much easier if I employed the left’s tactic of believeing that I know what someone else really means, regardless of what they actually say. My bad.
I think he said exactly what he meant, not realizing that he dropped trou. Still, his inadvertant glimpses in to his thought processes are extraordinarily illuminating, and I hope he continues.
No. I mean the schools that teach no American history prior to 1887, or that FDR was the best thing since sliced bread, or lauding the accomplishments of the Most Selfish Generation™ in the 1960′s…these kind of things.
February 28, 2010 at 1:16 pm |
hear hear excellent reply.
I’m curious if Rutherford and others who share this
view do so out of guilt or what ???
February 28, 2010 at 1:13 pm |
You leftist spimeisters are freaking hilarious.
First I apologize to Rutherford that I worked and added something to the economy instead of watching the entire summit. I am guilty of the heinous crime of relying on a myriad of journalism sources in this thing we call the information age. I am quite confident I have an adequate picture.
This thread is indicative of a losers ball. How quickly it devolved into the “racists don’t love Obama” thing. So tired and pathetic.
I give you folks just a tip of the iceberg of analysis on the summit.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/Health-Care-Rashomon-5-Completely-Different-Summit-Takeaways-2675
Plenty to go around but this far from right wing puff piece is a good primer.
Then we have the polling. Not a one shows the American people want what is happening. Go back is the order of the day and it is being ignored by the elitist snobs that are too f#$%ing stupid to see the writing on the wall.
Going back doesn’t mean a blank page fresh start. Most people with half a clue realize a couple of smaller steps of regulation,new policies and such is the place to go.
Seriously folks this summit was a joke. Even Clayburn (D.SC) spoke of how the off camera stuff was superior to the pony show.
As for some of the crazy history lessons going on here.
First the German people like many Europeans were actually very anti semitic. Perhaps not Kristellnacht ready but then again not every German acted that night. I am glad that Nazi=Republican is all good though. I’ll try to remember that through reconciliation and the next time I say Dems = Socialist/communist. Somehow I doubt I’ll be afforded any slack.
FDR did not face any unusual or disproportionate flak. First off he was most usually attacked on his imperialism/fascism leanings.There was of course a healthy dose of socialist fear mongering. this wasn’t out of line given the concerns re the Red Scare. Paul you dream out of context. The ultimate proof that FDR was treated more than fairly was how he was never photographed to highlight his disability.
And in closing more flak for Rutherford. Dude you are so _____ up it’s amazing.
You speak of how we outsource work and racism in the same sentence. You are mind blowing man. You probably ought to get a grip that blue collar jobs tend not to be outsourced other than manufacturing. The blue collar jobs that remain,predominantly in the service sector are prime candidates for illegal immigrant labor. Who do you think that really hurts most? I’ll tell you it’s blacks. So racism and outsourcing really doesn’t live in the same ‘hood.Now i imagine you salivate for the opp to highlight xenophobia and racism-don’t bother. law abiding citizens ALWAYS deserve the jobs first.
February 28, 2010 at 4:31 pm |
First I apologize to Rutherford that I worked and added something to the economy instead of watching the entire summit.
I guess I didn’t say it here but said it elsewhere (probably in the comments section of my own blog) but I did have the 7 hours because I am currently under-employed. Now Alfie, I’d gladly trade that 7 hours for a money making venture. You know anyone who needs a webinar producer or a business analyst?
February 28, 2010 at 1:39 pm |
Alfie, you’ve connected dots never meant to be connected, or perhaps I just wrote my comment very poorly. I was making no connection to racism vs outsourcing. What I was trying to say was that our current polarization goes way beyond racism. It is typical behavior of a people in crisis.
I did not say Republicans are Nazi’s. I said that a country in crisis clings to hate and polarization unless led to do otherwise. My example was post WWI Germany. If I knew my history better, I could’ve chosen any number of other examples. Germany was the first to come to mind. No, Republicans are not Nazi’s.
Union protected manufacturing jobs pay better than service jobs last time I looked. So to say that only manufacturing jobs have been outsourced proves nothing. As I said, we don’t MAKE anything anymore. Should “illegals” get those service jobs that exist? Of course not. So you’re tossing an argument at me that I never opposed in the first place. Now I also happen to think that illegal aliens are a convenient target for unrelated woes (are you listening tom Tancredo?) but that is beside the point.
Finally, FDR was treated “fairly” because they didn’t show his leg braces? That had nothing to do with fairness. It was the media of the day and the relative decency of the day that you didn’t exploit a man’s disability for political gain. Of course, we all know that FDR couldn’t have stood a snow ball’s chance in hell of getting elected today if for no other reason than the wheel chair. So much for progress. The ADA helped a lot but you ain’t ever gonna see a disabled President any time soon.
February 28, 2010 at 1:50 pm |
I don’t see how we can become any more demoralized than we are now. I’ll gladly show you Rutherford as well as counter your points when I ahve more time. Too much time in front of the computer and the odd house chore has made me need to get outside. Later
February 28, 2010 at 4:24 pm |
Watching this Olympics has reminded of 1980 as I sit here and watch hockey. Things were pretty much the same then as now, except instead of deficit, it was runaway inflation. We got terrorists now, we had the Iranian hostage situation and Lebanon then. Both periods were characterized by weak Presidents, incapable of leadership – buffoons with a teleprompter.
What is different now instead of then is I don’t give a damn about the Left anymore and don’t believe I need them. I think they are a pestilence upon our once great land. I’d as soon dine with a cowardly Frenchman as I would a Progressive. Like Markkkos Zuniga said of our own troops, I say of the Left: “Screw them. I feel nothing.”
Since the days of Robert Bork being lied about, shit upon by a idiot named Joe Biden, my anger has built toward the Left. They have done nothing to change that and every day they add to anger with their games and dishonesty. I’ve watched Dimocrats become the enemy, lie, cheat, steal, propagandize to destroy from within. They declared war on Conservatism – more specifically Christian conservatives many years ago, whether they go by ACLU or another number of legal sounding names. Some even attend church or mass. I remain unimpressed.
But to no feign surprise when they finally got me to hate them? Isn’t that what they wanted? The days of forgiving and forgetting is over. I for one, will never make peace with the Left wing of the Dimocratic party again, even if we are attacked by foe. Because I consider them part and parcel of the real enemy
March 1, 2010 at 8:35 am |
Tex said…. I for one, will never make peace with the Left wing of the Dimocratic party again, even if we are attacked by foe. Because I consider them part and parcel of the real enemy
Tex – I don’t know which I should do more – admire your honesty or feel disgust in your revelations…. probably a bit of both.
What you are saying – if your true sentiment – is really frightening. A couple of weeks ago I made a post in which I asked if conservatives would like to see Obama fail even if it meant taking the country down with him. Most responders said no – they would rather see the country succeed. I wondered a bit about the sincerity of that….
In your honesty you are making my point for me. You are saying that you would rather see Obama fail at all cost. When you say you could not unite behind a democratic President – even when attacked by a fie – when you are calling us the enemy – when you are declaring war on us – you are seriously putting politics before country.
You realize this is a path to destruction, right? Hatred begets hatred. If your side seriously declares war here you can bet that my side will retaliate – and it will get worse and worse until you guys finally round all of us “lefties” up and have us shot.
Yeah – it will be your side that does the rounding up and shooting too – you are the ones with the guns.
Once the shooting is done and all of us lefties are dead I am sure you will be happy with your nation.
– hp
March 1, 2010 at 9:30 am |
HP, two things. First, I can say with 95% accuracy that unlike Joe Stack, Tex is not going to go postal on anyone anytime soon. Tex has always enjoyed the relative anonymity of the blogosphere to flex his muscle and while I don’t doubt the sincerity of his politics, his rhetoric is definitely amped up for effect. For starters, if Tex’s wife even thought for a moment that he’d line up to kill liberals, she’d kick his ass and he knows it.
Second, I have to give Obama props because at the summit, he confronted head-on the flip flop that he did on the mandate. As you recall, he opposed Hillary Clinton’s call for a mandate to buy insurance. He said that he realized upon further examination that the mandate is a simple financial necessity. You can’t build the system without it.
March 1, 2010 at 11:52 am |
“r”,
I wouldn’t waste the bullet. I certainly wouldn’t waste the plane.
I have no intention of shooting anyone, unless shot at first. Now, I might provoke you to shoot first.
But Joe Stack I am not – in fact, if I were to guess with Joe’s hatred of organized religion that was perfectly clear in his manifesto, I would hypothesize that Joe would be far closer to you and Hippie in his politic than I am. I might be wrong, but did not he call Bush out by name in his hate laced diatribe?
Rutherford, what I think you understand that Hippie doesn’t is the fact I have no intention of stopping your destruction either. As it stands, I do want Obama to fail. Not because of my intense dislike for him as he is no different than hundreds of other libs, but the fact that Obama is in a position of power, with the power to facilitate and implement policies that I believe will greatly damage the country. I don’t think Obama is a radical – I know Obama is a radical and I don’t have to look further than the people he has made a lifetime of surrounding himself.
Hippie, while your statement of me wanting Obama to fail is absolutely correct, your conclusions of why I want him to fail would be completely wrong.
I want Obama to fail in order to protect our country. I want to be a part of what made America great to begin with and preserve that heritage for my own children. We are of the same opinion – each of us believing the other puts politics before country – mirror images of the other. I do find progressives the enemy and in a small way, have declared war on you. I will not allow your ideas to be established rule that I believe harm my country without a fight, vicious if need be. I will abide by them if I lose.
However Hippie, if it will alleviate the symptoms of disbelief at my candor, I can promise you this. You have nothing to physically fear from me. Rutherford is right in that my own wife is far smarter than I will ever be in every facet of life except mechanics. And if she set her mind to it, she would better at that too. She would indeed hammer me for even hinting at division or picking a fight which I do with great glee on the hyperbolic curve, teasing you, baiting you, slamming you.
On the other hand, being of all the souls walking this earth at present, my wife is the one that I most respect and believes walks closest to God, she does carry a great deal of weight formulating my opinions. No doubt I would be better to follow her lead, and if I didn’t have so many moments of weakness, I wouldn’t bother to even debate. I have this naive hope that somehow someone like Gorilla, or BIC, or Rabbit will make sense to you and you would reconsider your positions. But my beautiful wife would also advise me to avoid people like you too. Though she is much softer and what most would regard as more reasonable, she too realizes that Obama and company are bad news. She just doesn’t advertise it like I do, doesn’t tease like I do, doesn’t debate like I do, and has more confidence in the American public than I do to make things right.
March 1, 2010 at 12:28 pm |
HP,
I am currently sick with a quite serious cold so pardon me if my comments are disjointed or perhaps mildly off-topic. I will do my best.
I watched little of the health care summit, it was far too much political theater for me to stomach and I had other things that needed to be done. However, when I saw Ryan from Wisconsin talking about health care and how the answer is not from Washington, I was quite proud of my party.
As for saying that the Republicans are like the Soviets, well that’s quite unfair. The Democrats are far closer to the mantra of the Soviets than the Republicans are. Universal health care was one of the tenets of the commies. *end potshots*
And for your point about people dying without a national health care system, how many more will die if the entire country collapses? Also, if people die because there isn’t a national health care plan (which is debatable that they wouldn’t even with the plan) should we ban cars, alcohol, guns, llamas, horses, hot dogs, trash compactors, computers, light bulbs, electricity, trees, electric blankets, cruise ships, airplanes, baseball bats, railroad ties or any other potentially dangerous item because they kill people?
People die from all of the things that I just listed, yet we cannot ban all of them. Likewise we cannot pass and pay for a plan who’s goal is to supposedly save lives yet will in turn actually lower the quality of care, bankrupt the country and most likely lead to rationing that will harm thousands. People will most likely raise a stink about me saying this. Let me clarify, it is abhorrent when any person dies. However, we cannot afford to bank on a health care bill that will raise deficits and bankrupt us in the long term. We already have nearly a hundred trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities, this health care bill will likely raise that even higher. It is an unacceptable sin that we pass ever higher deficits and debt on to our children and grandchildren.
An Informed Mind
Purveyor of An Informed Blog
http://aninformedmind.wordpress.com
March 1, 2010 at 12:43 pm |
Look at the terminology here. Serfs, vassals, dependence. It is exactly as I stated in my recent Glenn Beck article. The Right is convinced that government exercising a protective responsibility over its people is tantamount to making slaves of them!
What responsibility are you referring to, R? Where did we give them that responsibility? If you believe that this is such a responsibility, what other responsibilities should government have? Feeding everyone? Sheltering everyone? Clothing everyone? Where does it end, and where do you find your authority for declaring the work of government done, if these things are somehow consistent with the duties of government.
March 1, 2010 at 1:36 pm |
Here Hippie Professor. I know you hate links, but if you want to read somebody who does a better job of summarizing my own opinions about Obama than any current author, why count on my rank amateurish style? Let another professional do it.
http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/obama-fatigue/
March 1, 2010 at 3:02 pm |
You’ve made no secret you’re a huge VDH fan. Let me address two of his points.
3. Laureate Warmaking: Like most Conservatives Victor has trouble holding two thoughts in his head at once. One can believe whole-heartedly in peace but understand the realities of war and take appropriate action. Obama is actively working to reduce our nuclear arsenal but yes he’s also predator bombing the crap out of Pakistan. Only in Victor’s world does smart military action have to be accompanied by dumbass cowboy braggadocio.
6. Race is a no-no: Sorry Victor but with the exception of the Gates affair, Obama’s racial stance has been impeccable. You cannot blame him for any race cards played by his supporters.
March 1, 2010 at 3:25 pm |
You cannot blame him for any race cards played by his supporters.
But I can blame him from benefitting from it by saying nothing against it.
March 1, 2010 at 3:52 pm |
the Jan/Feb edition of Foreign Policy magazine has a good article by John Mueller on pgs 39=44 that looks at Obama,the USA and nukes. The best parts are found pgs39-40 where it is put forth that Obama is both wasting his time and energy on the nuclear disarmament issue. Nuclear arsenal downgrading is an ongoing deal that is very much a done deal. Obamas actions are panderings to the Left and a cheap way to score a win without actually doing anything. basically Obama,and for that matter W policy surfed on this. Nixon,Carter and Reagan set the table with some follow through from Bush 1. W and O just came and mooched.
March 1, 2010 at 5:11 pm |
“R”
Does that impeccable record include the appointment of Vann Jones, who accused white America of dumping “poison” in the communities of “color.” Again, I was assuming white a color, but…
I won’t touch the impeccable record of the spiritual adviser.
March 1, 2010 at 3:53 pm |
It’s your blog Hippie and I’m heading to isolation but you really should OK those commenters you like. This constant sign in stuff is a drag.
March 1, 2010 at 3:56 pm |
Alfie – do you have to sign in? I apologize – I wasn’t even aware of that. I will make the change.
– hp
March 3, 2010 at 2:45 pm |
I just ran into this interesting Newsweek article… it has a lot of insight into the issues we have been discussing here and on other threads – and on Rutherford’s and BiW’s and Alfie’s blogs as well.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/234372/page/1
Here is an snippet:
But what if the president had tried to shift the Overton Window to the left by loudly advocating for a proposal that he knew would never pass, like the public option, which he supported in theory but refused to fight for, or even a single-payer system, which he rejected outright? The reaction would’ve been the same: the GOP still would’ve accused Obama of orchestrating a government takeover of health care, the tea partiers still would’ve showed up at town-hall meetings with shotguns. But at least he would’ve had some room to operate. Taking note of the (rather predictable) outrage on the right, Obama could have cut a deal with Republicans to eliminate all government involvement, either by dropping the public option or by replacing the single-payer system with private-insurance exchanges; he might have included tort reform in the package as well. Republicans would then have been able to claim that they reined in the president’s liberal ambitions and persuaded him to adopt conservative ideas. The Dems would have been disappointed, but they’d have signed on eventually. While Obama would have suffered a bit at first for seeming more radical than he actually is, he’d ultimately have earned points for his openness and bipartisanship. And the final legislation would have been a lot like the bill that Democrats are currently cobbling together in Congress, only it would’ve materialized much, much sooner, long before the country had had time to tire of the issue.
I for one wish he would have played it that way….
– hp
March 14, 2010 at 4:51 pm |
Funny part is that the Republican party was formed to FREE the slaves (which the Democrats opposed). Martin Luther King was a Republican. And now they have their own ‘Coffee Party” full of children of the rich and people (of all colors) are ready to fall at their feet. By the way, do you know the difference between the Republican and Democrat parties? Republicans are rich greedy company owners who never worked a day in their lives and Democrats are the children of the rich greedy company owners that are still rebelling against their rich greedy Republican parents. And until Mommy and Daddy stop taking care of them, they will continue to do so. The worse part about it is, the hard working Americans are the ones stuck in the middle because somebody has to work so the money can keep rolling in. Oh, that’s right, Clinton (another poor little rich boy) sent all the good jobs overseas when he signed NAFTA so all the rich, greedy, company owners could pay kids 50 cents a day in sweat shops. (It’s legal over there)
March 25, 2010 at 10:09 pm |
What more do you need than the pie chart. 41% of registered Dims want it pushed to challenge the constitutionality.
I don’t even need the writeup.
March 25, 2010 at 10:26 pm |
Tex said: I don’t even need the writeup.
I can read the pie chart too, Tex.
I am trying to say that a claim that 41 percent of dems want it constitutionally challenged stretches believability.
I am also saying that if you read the actual question asked it says nothing about constitutionality and the courts. The question asked was about Republicans in congress. What is so hard to understand about that? You are misinterpreting the question asked.
BTW – Democrats in the state of my birth (Washington) are highly incensed that the Republican AG has joined the Florida lawsuit – incensed to the degree that they are looking for legislative and budgetary methods to stop him. I guarantee that 40 percent of Washington State dems are NOT wanting the bill attacked on constitutional grounds.
– hp