Sorta – I said government needs to be involved in giving people equal opportunity (that is what I have always taken the “All men are created equal” clause to imply). But – after we succeed in giving them that opportunity it is up to them. A lot of people who have all the advantages now screw it up with drugs or alcohol or crime or laziness – and that is their responsibility. I just want to see that everyone has the same opportunity to blow it….

In all seriousness, there will be some lingering discrimination – but with the educational preparation the currently disadvantaged communities will be in a position to overcome that.

I said: The black community tends to believe that the deck is stacked against them and that success is impossible.
then Ben said: Confirmation bias?

Maybe – but I think there is a lot of real confirmation too. I always come back to the statistic that black males are more likely to go to prison than to go to college. That statistic certainly says “why try – you will fail anyway.”

– hippieprof

The flip answer is: to match the watered down students.
It is certainly true that the reading assignments I was required to do at an elite school in the early ’60s would provoke insurrection now, as well as being beyond the reading capabilities of some students admitted to the state college/university that I taught at.

The more serious answer is that the increase in the number of students has mostly been accommodated by the expansion of the public higher education system, both by expanding enrollments at state colleges (and rebranding them state universities) and by rebranding vocational/technical schools and community colleges as comprehensive four year institutions.
A far greater proportion of the student population is enrolling in programs designed to prepare them for specific occupations rather than as generalists (not a whole lot of liberal arts majors any more).

In other words, different schools serving different students.
If you adopt the standards of fifty years ago, you might call it a watered down curriculum, but I don’t think that that’s an appropriate comparison.
You could talk about a watered down curriculum only in the case of the same programs at the same schools with the same admission requirements reducing the rigour of their programs.

Agreed. I don’t believe our watered down or dumbed down currickyoulum is caused by AA. AA enables those who can make it because of the dumbed down currickyoulum.

RE:Funding of schools based on property taxes is a terrible solution because it distributes education in proportion to wealth.
I think we addressed that problem in Texas with the Robin Hood act. The Robin Hood school finance program has been largely successful in substantially equalizing 90 percent of Texas school districts’ spending per student.

The system restricts the school districts’ tax rate for management and operation costs to $1.50 per $100 of property wealth. Also, high-wealth school districts have to keep their wealth level at $295,000 per student. The revenues above this limit will be redistributed to low-wealth districts in order to achieve equity.

In Houston, for example, Houston Independent School District has a property wealth of $239,246 per student and receives a state aid of $1,474 per pupil at a tax rate of about $1.52 per $100 of taxable property.

Despite the system’s success in reducing the disparities between school districts’ wealth, some unanticipated problems have surfaced.

“[The plan] has been successful in bringing the property wealth of wealthy districts down,” Wisnosky said. “It has been less successful in bringing the wealth of poor districts up.”

“Inflation, along with ever-increasing state and local [performance] demands, are driving up the cost of education faster than the legislature is providing new funding.”

That is a really interesting question – and it has a complex answer.

I personally don’t see a lot of students who “shouldn’t be there” (at least for academic reasons) because I teach at a highly selective private college and we don’t sample the low end of the curve.

I do believe that many students entering college these days are simply not well prepared to be there. Public high schools in particular are doing an awful job of preparing students in basics like mathematics and writing. This isn’t anything new, either: I went to private Catholic schools all the way through highschool and I was absolutely astounded when I got to college at how much better prepared I was. I was actually taught how to write in highschool. I occasionally teach a first-year writing course now and I am consistently amazed at how poorly prepared incoming students are.

Now – before Ben jumps in with “dumbing down of America” I don’t think this is something you can blame on affirmative action. Our teacher education programs are poor, and teacher salaries are too low to attract the best and the brightest. Teachers unions fight against quality standards (don’t faint – that is a conservative talking point). Funding of schools based on property taxes is a terrible solution because it distributes education in proportion to wealth. On top of that, people are stingy in supporting school levies.

That last one really gets to me. I get really steamed that parents will buy their kids a $300.00 iPhone but scream like hell when a school levy wants to increase their taxes by $300.00. I know – free market. But you know, sometimes the free market is damned stupid.

Paul is right to point out that college isn’t what it used to be. I actually believe we should be pushing college more – or better yet we should be pushing highschools and gradeschools to do their job.

– hippieprof

Matthew 24:5-8 clues to discern the approach of the end times.. ah yes.. wars and rumors of wars, nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. An increase in false messiahs, an increase in warfare, and increases in famines, plagues, and natural disasters—these are signs of the end times. blah, blah,blah. …

Yes! Here it is… “Hippieprof sees that government intervention is not a solution and people should take responsibility for their actions.

Ok. we’re toast.

RE:I don’t think that is discrimination at all. If we give someone an equal opportunity it is up to them to make something out of it.
Agreed.

RE:The black community tends to believe that the deck is stacked against them and that success is impossible.
Confirmation bias?

RE:Certainly, … Once a lot of people start succeeding the community will take note.
Agreed, but there will be this one sad and remaining fact. There will still be those who believe that in spite of the above Utopia, (ok – it IS possible to pull this off with the political motivation so maybe it’s not Utopia… goal might be better) prejudice will still exist and discrimination in the market place will have to be supplanted by AA. We just have to get government to get rid of them some how.

RE:Something needs to be done to break that cycle.
End AA and free high quality and equal education for all.
It’s sort of on the same page but in my world AA ceases to exist. .. .. like ACORN would.